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Presenter: Good evening, viewers. Here we are again back with our programme Open Files. This evening we have a most interesting guest, Adnan Oktar, whose name is frequently mentioned and who, especially with his recent Atlas of Creation has defied, and literally demolished Darwinism with his ideas. How is Adnan Oktar regarded by the public? What has Adnan Oktar done? The unknown side of Adnan Oktar. Tonight we shall be trying to shed light on all these issues.

Thank you for agreeing to appear on this programme. We shall be trying to shed some light on what people do not know about you on today’s programme. With your permission I would like to make a brief introduction. The public are well acquainted with you from publishing organs and from your activities. On this programme I am planning to set out for our viewers some of your less spectacular but nevertheless very important views and statements. I would like to learn your perspective on Turkey and the world. How do you evaluate them?

ADNAN OKTAR: My opinion is that in general the world will be heading in the right direction. In particular, there will be a union, a unification, within the Turkish Islamic world. Turkey will lead both the Islamic and Turkish worlds. I expect this to take place within 10 to 20 years. Globally, however, I expect the European Union to fall apart and that there will be a social collapse. I think that in America there will be a sigh of relief stemming from this Turkish Islamic union, and that two superstates, America and the Turkish Islamic union, will lead the world in establishing global equilibrium.

Presenter: So in other words you are saying that powers such as the Shanghai five and the Soviet Union, Russia and Europe will have little importance within the axis we will be establishing with America?

Presenter: I understand. The public are not that familiar with these statement of yours, but we know that the media and organs of state have in the past focussed on you in a very serious manner. You have been dragged through the courts, law suits have been opened against you, allegations have been made and you have, of course, issued the requisite responses in the courts. What was going on behind the scenes? Why were you such a target? Was it because these ideas of yours were known?

ADNAN OKTAR: None of these things would have happened if I had been an atheist or a Freemason. But because I am religious, a nationalist, a proponent of Turkish Islamic union, a supporter of Turkish greatness, people opposed to these ideas, both domestically and abroad, formed an alliance against me and resulted in this opposition.

Presenter: Now, I am asking this so that our viewers can understand; in order to produce a leader it is generally necessary for them to be oppressed, and then overcoming that oppression, a phenomenon should be created - in that sense is not the same thing happening with regard to you?

ADNAN OKTAR: I have certainly been unjustly treated, and then unjustly treated, and then it is still going on, in other words there has been no easing up.

Presenter: The security services have made various claims regarding you. They have made serious allegations against you, such as that you use cocaine. Was there any need for the state to make such claims?

ADNAN OKTAR: The state itself had no such need, but the communist state within a state had. I am sure that dark forces did that with the cocaine conspiracy. The state would not do such a thing, would not stoop to such actions. Secret groups, however, secret groups that have infiltrated the state are responsible. But the legal system gave them just the answer they deserved. Forensic science established that this was all a conspiracy, that the cocaine had been mixed into my food and drink at the Security Headquarters; this was established by forensic science and also the courts, I was acquitted.

Presenter:  Yes, the courts issued the requisite response.

Presenter: The reason I asked you is that as a professional requirement in interviews of this kind my colleagues generally concentrate more on the more notorious, spectacular aspects rather than on ideas. What I want to learn from you and pass on to our viewers is different; just before coming to this meeting, before interviewing you, I read some of your statements to date and the messages you wish to give in your publications. I believe you have a platform for your ideas, the Science Research Foundation or BAV. Just what is the BAV? With your permission, maybe you could first tell our viewers about that, and then I shall ask some more about your ideas.

ADNAN OKTAR: The BAV is a spiritual and nationalist foundation that is loyal to the Ataturk line, and supports a great Turkey and a Turkish Islamic union. To my way of thinking it strives to bring together all means of being of use to the nation and the motherland and to eliminate both domestic and foreign strife, that struggles against separatism and communism, that is pro-statist, defends the state and supports its indivisibility.

Presenter: You issue a number of publications, generally using the name Harun Yahya, in which you set out the existence and oneness of God in a highly scientific manner. What is the message you seek to impart in these publications, in other words, are you trying to establish a mass view?

ADNAN OKTAR: Nobody, neither domestically nor from abroad, can harm a nation possessed of faith. That is a stipulation set out in the Qur’an. Sura Lukman tells people to adhere to the true path and to avoid evil, to command others to do good.

Presenter: Is there a need for such a mission in Turkey?

ADNAN OKTAR: That is the duty of every Muslim. In the Surah Lukman, Allah states that as a responsibility over every Muslim.

In the past we have seen that everyone, and I do not wish to repeat their names here, that everyone claims to act in the name of preaching the message. We generally see that these people end up going to America. They continue communicating their message in America.

Presenter: When the message that every Muslim must communicate is preached, what naturally comes to mind is, whether there is a superpower behind them, whether there are statements or backing that could damage the unity of the country. Can you definitively state that you carry out your own activities from your own pocket, without receiving any external support?

ADNAN OKTAR: I have only one support. And that is Allah. I have no backing other than Allah.

Presenter: But in spreading that message of late you have issued serious statements regarding Zionism and Darwinism.

Presenter: You have worked very seriously on that subject in your publications. Why did you feel the need, when there are so many scientists around, so many investigations into Darwinism, to begin saying that you saw deficiencies here? What is the connection with Darwinism here?

ADNAN OKTAR: It takes courage to combat Darwinism, and courage to struggle against Zionism. People may possess knowledge and culture but have no courage. It is courage that is required. That is what I am doing. I am displaying that courage and sincerity. It was Adem Tatli, I think, Professor Adem Tatli, who was years ago expelled from his university because of a book he wrote about Darwinism. In other words, this is no easy endeavour.

Presenter:  As you know, in the Middle Ages Christians, believed literally in creation, in creation from Adam and Eve, just like we do. Yet scientists raised in the Christian philosophical tradition, Darwin, described a universe in which we developed from a single cell to our current human form. How did you come to think of overcoming that? How did you manage to overcome it?

ADNAN OKTAR: This was all a huge deception. They first spread the idea that scientists never lie, that they know the truth about everything. Yet we have proved that scientists can and do lie. My sincere apologies to the rest, but we have proved that some will lie. We have revealed their hoax skulls, the fossils they concealed. They concealed millions of fossils. We proved their existence. We exhibited them and published them in book form. As you know, these books have been distributed in France and everywhere in Europe. After that, they were effectively silenced. Note that their oxygen supply has been cut off. They are now very weak. Their will has been broken and they lack the strength to lie.

Presenter: Darwinist philosophy has to date been taught in schools. In one way you have demolished Darwinian philosophy and directed people towards belief in God. You have demonstrated creation as it is. Is that not a subject requiring intensive research? What sources do you rely on?

 ADNAN OKTAR: Our sources were of course external ones. In other words, we collected together all the research carried out by scientists in Europe. We collected photographs together. When we brought everything together we proved that it was all a huge hoax.

Presenter: But who was to benefit from it? From the truth or falsity of this scientific claim by Darwin? In other words, did it turn mankind away from God, from the one God, from that technical concept?

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, the opinions in need of this are - Atheist Zionism needs Darwinism. Freemasonry needs it. Communism needs it, as does fascism. Darwin was essential to all four ways of thinking. We have now deprived them of what they need. They are now stranded. Communism, fascism, godless Zionism and Freemasonry are currently all stranded.

Presenter: Could Masonic or Jewish groups have gained any benefit from this in terms of our country?

ADNAN OKTAR: Of course, it is an easy matter to crush or tear apart a society that has no faith. A society with no faith is ready to be split up, is easily fragmented. It actually cries out for it. Even if they all belong to the same race, racial fragmentation takes place, fragmentation between cities. Eventually that reduces to fragmentation between even very small groups, because selfishness comes to the forefront.

Presenter: I see. And what did the Ministry of Education think of your stance?

ADNAN OKTAR: We have never had any official ties to the Ministry of Education. But this is not a job for the Ministry, it is a job for charitable foundations and societies.

Presenter: Before researching this subject I made some investigations on the Internet. A million copies of your books on the subject have been downloaded from your web sites, which have been visited by a total of around five million people. This is an excellent thing, of course, something to feel very happy about.

Presenter: In one sense, of course, you are bringing happiness to all mankind by demolishing Darwinism. How did other states outside Turkey regard your campaign against Darwinism? What reactions were forthcoming? Were they positive or negative?

ADNAN OKTAR: There was complete panic in France. Literal panic. Because they had gradually been deceiving Europe for 150 years. Quietly deceiving it. They never imagined they would have the carpet pulled from under their feet so suddenly. They themselves referred to their shock and astonishment, and that is also my view of their reaction – shock and astonishment.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes. These ideas and beliefs of theirs were overturned when they got up in the morning and saw these books on their tables and in their bookcases. That shock had them jumping up and down, though they have quietened down now.

Presenter:  Can we say that in demolishing Darwinism you also showed that Islam is a faith embracing enormous love?

Presenter:  Could that be what alarmed them?

ADNAN OKTAR: Of course What they really fear is the conquest of Europe by Ottoman thought. People are asking what lies behind this. They are terrified of an intellectual conquest. They think that the Ottomans will once again come to Zigatvar, to the gates of Vienna.

Presenter:   Your activities also provoked loud reactions in the European Union. You refer to an earthquake effect.

Now the matter has been raised, what is your view of the European Union?

ADNAN OKTAR: Democracy, artistic understanding, scientific understanding and the scientific perspective are all excellent in the European Union, but its view of Islam and other faiths is very crude and ugly. I think that in the long term the European Union will head towards being a communist union. Because it is a Union opposed to religion, opposed to the family, opposed to the state, opposed to the unified state. The inevitable consequence of that is contemporary communism.

Presenter:   But the Vatican, the official EU faith, supports this. Does this claim of yours not rather conflict with the Vatican position?

ADNAN OKTAR: The Vatican is currently a prisoner in Europe. It has no power. The Vatican is an entirely visual, symbolic institution, but an institution with no power in Europe at the moment.

Presenter:  Do you think the European Union will be able to achieve success over a 20-year period?

ADNAN OKTAR: I think it will go wrong. But the Turkish Islamic Union will grow and develop. Inshallah, we will all witness this.

Presenter: In these statements you make, what i see is that apart from an Islamic formation, I am taking your opions as per your position as an opinion leader. But why do not you feel the need to set these views of yours out in the media from time to time? The public are currently unaware of your views regarding the European Union and the Vatican, for example.

ADNAN OKTAR:  Yes. When the time comes Allah creates a means whereby this happens. I then possess the means to tell people my opinions.

Presenter:  So we are now saying that in one sense Darwinism has collapsed.

Presenter:  Thanks to your such activities. When we look at your basically visual material it can be seen that you concentrate particularly on the miracles in nature in your DVDs. You prove the existence and oneness of Allah in these, with full supporting evidence. Is your aim to tell the present day and age of the existence and oneness of God?

ADNAN OKTAR: Of course. The present age will be one of faith. It will be one in which materialism collapses and is replaced by idealism, in other words of belief in God. That is the defining characteristic of the age.

Presenter:  But we have seen similar publications in the past. They lacked your level of technical support, of course. You are naturally in a different position. The people we refer to as the Nurjus had similar texts in their own journals. Do you not enter into conflict with them from time to time. Are you not addressing the same audience?

ADNAN OKTAR: The same audience, but everyone can see that this is where the most effective communication takes place. Because all religious communities, religious groups, read my books.

Presenter:  You must incur considerable costs. The public are curious. They say that those expenses, at least the costs of sending out this Atlas of Creation, must be very high. Do you have any financing difficulties? How is financing provided?

ADNAN OKTAR: My friends are very successful businessmen. I have been unable to tell the public about that, but these are people who are unbelievably successful, really intelligent and enterprising, who make huge investments; they are really successful in both business and in other spheres. They make a great deal of money. They also spend a lot of money on God’s path. This is an excellent thing.

Presenter:  I see. To sum up what you have said, I get the impression you are currently in search of an identity. You used to be known as Adnan Hodja. But what identity should we ascribe to you now? In other words, is Adnan Hodja a man of science? Or a writer? Or a journalist? How do you describe yourself? What does it say on your business cards?

Presenter:  Just Writer… Now, I am curious about your ideas, these very current opinions of yours. During this second term in power of the AKP government there is a problem regarding the universities that seems incapable of being resolved, as you know. That is the question of the headscarf in universities. What are you views concerning the headscarf, in both religious and political terms?

ADNAN OKTAR: I consider it wrong for young people to be persecuted at the gates in this way, for so many difficulties to be placed in their path. They should give up these actions, which are a disgrace, a sin, unnecessary and incompatible with good conscience. They must let these young people in so they can study freely. These are innocent girls, perfectly brought up and inoffensive. The result is a totally unnecessary tension. What difference does it make if a few such people enter university? I find it wrong for them to interfere with their headscarves, their beliefs.

Presenter:   But the courts have decreed, constitutionally and publicly, that the headscarf cannot be worn in such places.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, but a correction could be made. That correction should be made so the persecution of these young people comes to an end. The issue is making everyone uneasy. It is completely unnecessary. There is nothing risky about it, nothing dangerous. Nobody is victimised in any way. There is nothing disturbing about it. So why are people so uneasy about it?

Presenter:   Could the worry be that those people who wear the headscarf will put pressure on those who don’t to do so?

ADNAN OKTAR: No, no. There are people who hold all kinds of different opinions. Right-wingers get on, as do left-wingers. Nobody puts any pressure on anybody else. Will anyone fail to see that these are religious types even if they don’t wear the headscarf? It will be perfectly obvious. So it cannot end in any pressurisation. That is a really distorted idea.

Presenter:  Can it be resolved in the long term?

ADNAN OKTAR: I think it can be, of course. Turkey is now following a more moderate line, a more understanding one. Tensions between people are rapidly diminishing. People used to look at one another with enormous prejudice or hostility, and sometimes even with hatred. But I now see that a spirit of love and brotherhood, of union and unity, is fast spreading through the country.

Presenter:  InshaAllah the headscarf problem will be resolved.

Presenter:  Your books contain statements that have been the subject of intense debate. Such as the coming of the Mahdi, the return to Earth of the Prophet ‘Isa (as). You have statements about Deccal. Maybe we should set out the concept of the mahdi for the benefit of our viewers, then we can move on to other subjects. What, according to Islamic belief, is Mahdism?

ADNAN OKTAR: The Mahdi is an individual whom our Prophet (saws) reveals in entirely trustworthy hadith to be descended from his line and who will appear in the End Times. There is no doubt about his coming. This belief is unquestioned in the beliefs of the people of the Sunna. The return of the Prophet ‘Isa (as) is also certain. There is no debate over his coming. The Qur’an also makes this clear. The prophet (saws) tells us that the coming of the Mahdi will be heralded by many portents. One of these is the severing of the waters of the Euphrates. The waters were indeed stopped by a dam. The newspapers wrote all about it. In other words, those waters were severed. He says that the Sun and Moon will be eclipsed at 15-day intervals during the month of Ramazan. And indeed solar and lunar eclipses 15 days apart did take place in the month of Ramazan in Hijri 1400. Our Prophet (saws) also said that Afghanistan would be invaded at that time. That also happened. He said there would be war between Iraq and Iran. And that happened. He says that Iraq will also be occupied. And that has also happened. We are told that foreign, Greek States will come with 70 banners. This means a coalition of many countries. And that is what happened. There is much proof of all this. He says there will be a portent in the Sun, for instance, and such an event did, indeed, take place for the first time in hundreds of years. With the coming about of these external signs we realised that these hadith were true. In other words, the fuflillment of so many portents immediately after Hijri 1400 shows that this is true.

Presenter:  Will the Mahdi be coming to rectify this corruption?.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, he will unify the Islamic world and usher in a brotherhood that will make that order possible. The world will be freed from chaos during his time. When the Prophet ‘Isa (as) returns he will will transform Christianity into Islam. That means Christianity will also change its form. Idols will be broken, the pig will be broken, meaning the ascription of equals to God will cease. The concept of the lawful and forbidden will be reshaped in the light of Islam. Therefore, Islam and Christianity will unite and form a single faith, and the world will enter a period of peace, security, well-being and plenty.

ADNAN OKTAR: The Dajjal is an atheistic concept. For example, Darwinism is the system of the Dajjal of the present age.

Presenter: So, you are saying that the Dajjal is currently in existence. So if the Dajjal is already present, so must the Mahdi be, too.

Presenter: From time to time they claim that you are the Mahdi. You have never issued any such statement, however. Is the rank of Mahdi a symbolic one at the present moment? Can it be attributed to those engaged in this struggle? Can the Mahdi be regarded as the personification of the struggle of a mass of people rather than a single individual?

ADNAN OKTAR: The Mahdi is an individual entity who also has his own comunnity. Said Nursi also says that. He says that no matter how few their numbers they will be spiritually strong and worthy. Our Prophet (saws) also states that his community will be very small. They will number around 300 people, they are a small community, he says. Their suspicions may perhaps have been raised by my strong focus on this subject of the Mahdi being a person described in detail. Their suspicions may have been aroused by my writing a book on the subject. I cannot and do not make such a claim, such a claim in terms of religious belief. In other words, I am not saying I am the Mahdi.

Presenter: But, as you know, the prophets had no hesitation about saying as much after the prophethood had been communicated to them.

ADNAN OKTAR: But if someone comes along and rules the Islamic world and is a means whereby the moral values of Islam come to rule the world, and if they ask me who that person is, I will say he is the Mahdi.

Presenter: There is currently a question of different sects in Islam. There is fragmentation in terms of sects. Some of our schools reject the idea of the Mahdi. There are the Wahhabites in Saudi Arabia, Islamic concepts in Pakistan and Tunisia. Do such sects and such divisions not weaken Islam in the face of denial?

ADNAN OKTAR: The Mahdi will do away with all that. All sects and schools will vanish in the time of the Mahdi. There are accounts and the hadith of our Prophet (saws). All schools will vanish and things will be as they were in my time, says the Prophet (saws).

Presenter: You mean he will be undertaking a very important mission

Presenter: Let me move on. I would like to discuss politics in general for a moment. The subject of Iran.

Presenter: There is the question of whether or not Iran possesses a nuclear bomb, an atom bomb. The USA is issuing really serious threats. Would you wish to see a Muslim country in possession of the atom bomb?

ADNAN OKTAR: The atomic bomb is something nobody in the world wants. But if some countries have it, then Islamic countries should have it, too.

Presenter: Israel is known to have a large number of nuclear weapons. That is really the reason why I asked the question. From the point of view of mutual deterrence.

ADNAN OKTAR: Of course they are necessary for establishing a balance. Turkey should have them as well. And Pakistan. And Iran. Everyone should have them.

Presenter: There is also the recent question of the rights given to minoroties under the Lausanne Agreement in Istanbul. Linked to the Patriarchate, the Eyup District Governor’s Office. The Patriarchate has lately wanted to announce an ecumenism independent of the Church in the Soviets or in Europe. Could the aim behind such ecumenism be the division or fragmentation of Turkey? What is your view of ecumenism?

ADNAN OKTAR: There is no need for ecumenism. There could be a department for the subject, in the same way that Turkey has a Religious Affairs Ministry. It would have to be under Turkish control. The Turkish Ministry of Religious Affairs does not claim to lead the whole Islamic world, and it would be inappropriate for any religious institution here to do so.

Presenter:  The Armenian Question has also been in the headlines of late. Armenians have been engaged in a series of anti-Turkish activities, both in Turkey and worldwide. How do you analyse the activities of the Armenian diaspora?

 ADNAN OKTAR: The Armenians will also enter the Turkish Islamic Union. Things will be as they were in Ottoman times. As in Ottoman times, they will live in peace and security under the affection and understanding bestowed on them by the Turks. That is how I think the issue will be resolved. In other words, even if there is a separate Armenia they will still live contented lives under Turkish guarantee. I therefore see no need for any hostility or rivalry, and regard such a thing as distasteful.

Presenter: The American Great Middle East Project recently changed its name to the Expanded Middle East Project; in other words, it has been included in the African Union under the name of the green belt. We know that American interests come into play in making the Great Middle East Project a reality. How should we, as believers living in Turkey, and the new young generation oppose the Great Middle East Project?

ADNAN OKTAR: In a society possessed of faith no harm can be done, even in the presence of the Great Middle East Project. InshaAllah, we will convert that project into the Great Turkish Islamic Union, and when that is established there will no longer be any need for the Great Middle East Project.

Presenter: This is what immediately comes to my mind from your statements; are the CIA and Mossad watching you? Are they thinking of having you terminated in the light of these ideas of yours?

 ADNAN OKTAR: Nobody can kill me. Only Allah can take my life. It is Allah who bestows life, and Allah who takes it. The CIA and Mossad are manifestations of Allah under His control. They have no independent strength. They can do nothing unless Allah so commands it. I therefore live my destiny, and everything within that destiny will come to fruition.

Presenter:  Our viewers have a number of questions in their minds I would like to put to you. You have recently placed announcements concerning the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) in newspapers and on the television. Are you saying that a real struggle needs to be waged? What form should that fight against the PKK be waged, in your view? What do you consider its ideological structure to be? How do you see the latest operations?

ADNAN OKTAR: The PKK is a Marxist, Leninist, Stalinist, communist organisation. It has a philosophical structure. It acquired that by way of philosophy, through philosophical propaganda. The response to be given is one of thesis and anti-thesis. Anti-communist propaganda is required. We need anti-Stalinist, anti-Darwinist, anti-Marxist activity. This is not being done. One-sided propaganda is always very powerful. In other words, if everything is pushed in one direction, that is the route it will take in the absence of any obstacles. Turkey cannot withstand such a thing for 10 or 20 years. Anti-communist propaganda is essential. To that end, there is a need for voluntary organisations, such as ourselves.

Presenter: You are saying this is a job for civil society organisations…

Presenter: As we know, the PKK is an organisation that enjoys foreign support and that cannot do this on its own. How can that foreign backing be severed?

ADNAN OKTAR: external support is unimportant. So long as anti-Darwinian propaganda is carried out inside the country, no matter how much foreign backing they receive it will just pass through; like water off a marble surface.

Presenter:  Is the establishment of a Kurdish state in northern Iraq at all possible?

ADNAN OKTAR: There is, of course, no need for the setting up of a Kurdish state. That is completely unnecessary. The Iraqi state has to maintain its indivisibility.

Presenter: yet some politicians that a Kurdish state established there, dependent on Turkey in one sense, could be more easily controlled. Is that what America has recently wished to see?

ADNAN OKTAR: No, no. Such a thing would be highly dangerous. It cannot be affiliated to Turkey. It would represent a major headache for Turkey and turn into a major power itself. Communism would gain ground. Because the ground is fertile. Much of the public is ignorant, and unilateral communist propaganda there could lead to a huge communist state. That would be a terrible threat.

Presenter: The USA took a unilateral decision to invade Iraq. It elected to tie the oil to itself.  Leftists in Turkey were in any case very hostile to the US, of course. But of later we have seen the emergence of a whole anti-American young generation. What do you think of the anti-American trends in Turkey?

ADNAN OKTAR: I harbour no grudge against the American people. I am in general very fond of them. What I am opposed to is materialism, atheism and godlessness. If the US encourages an atheist structure in the Middle East then I will strongly oppose it. But if it espouses faith, the truth and goodness, then I will take America’s side. That depends on the prevalent mindset there.

Presenter: But when we examine the form of the US administration we see that the Jewish lobby, together with the Hawks, centrists and evangelists, effectively runs it. Can the US administration really go against those who run it, and set up a new structure in Iraq, in the Middle East, which would serve Zionism?

ADNAN OKTAR: Godless,aetheist Zionism is a real danger. We need to be on our guard against atheist Zionism. But the way to do away with all these things is not by complaining about them. Weeping, shouting and complaining are not the way. It is to raise a faithful generation, who fears Allah, who loves Allah, and that remains loyal to the national flag; once a generation devoted to the faith has emerged, nobody can defeat Turkey.It will then become the leading state in the Middle East, and neither the USA, nor Russia nor China can cause it any problems.

Presenter:  Then again, the USA has its own policies. When it entered Iraq it allowed museums to be looted, the local culture to be destroyed, and divisions into Kurds, Sunnis and Shiites. These are of course matters giving rise to great unease in Turkey. As you have said, we support Iraqi territorial integrity. Groups watching these American attitudes have changed and adopted a seriously anti-American stance. Do you think this anti-Americanism will have an impact on Turkish-American relations?

 ADNAN OKTAR: I do not think so. Turkish-American relations are now deeper and based on a stronger framework. Crises of this kind crop up from time to time. But I do not think this will lead to any deep-rooted changes. Then again, I do not much like the US policy there.

Presenter: As you know, the US Senate has not yet ratified the Lausanne Agreement. Despite being our strategic partner, the USA has still not accepted Lausanne. Is such a friendship possible?

ADNAN OKTAR: Allow me to reiterate. Once Turkey has become strong and a powerful generation possessed of deep faith has emerged, “who” is thinking “what” will be of no importance. The whole issue will consist of strong union and unity, the nation loving eachother, the production of rational policies and especially the enshrinement of an anti-Darwinian and anti-materialist structure. That is most important.

Presenter: The Turkish Armed Forces are involved in operations in northern Iraq. You must have seen them.

ADNAN OKTAR: Our army has a general structure that acts in a manner entirely compatible with good conscience. The Turkish Army is quite unlike other armies. It is compassionate and has a conscience. It fears and loves God.

Presenter: Do you sometimes exchange views with retired armed forces officers? Do you have friends among them?

Presenter: On the subject of politics, I am curious about your dialogues with existing political parties. I imagine our viewers will be curious, too. At what level does your dialogue with the parties stand? Do you support parties, their policies and activities and especially the activities of the AKP government? What do you think of the opposition? What are opinions of internal politics?

ADNAN OKTAR: In my view, there are two parties in Turkey. One on the right, one on the left. I regard the whole of the right as a single party. All parties on the right are anti-Darwinist, anti-communist and anti-materialist. They are all loyal to spiritual values. That represents one party. There may be divisions between them, but that is acceptable. These can be regarded as different schools within the same party. But I support the right since I regard it as a whole.

Presenter: Are you in favour of the AKP’s activities?

ADNAN OKTAR: In some ways I am, but others I do not like. Generally speaking it seems to be heading in the right direction.

Presenter: The reason I ask is the claims in the press that someone known as the Red Imam, a former student of yours will be appointed deputy head of the Central Bank. Do you in fact recommend people for various posts and positions to the central administration?

 ADNAN OKTAR: I make no recommendations, but my students and friends have achieved various senior positions. As someone who has spent the last 20, 25 or 30 years talking about Islam, the Qur’an and the Turkish Islamic Union, I have naturally established a great many contacts. And these people have sometimes achieved very senior posts.

Presenter: How do you see the next 10 years? What about current developments?

ADNAN OKTAR: The next ten years ahead of us will be the years the Turkish Islamic Union will ramp.

Presenter:  Yet following the death of Turkish President Turgut Ozal we see very little political action in terms of a Turkish Islamic Union in the Turkic Republics, be it Kazakhstan or Turkmenistan. Do you really believe in that union?

 ADNAN OKTAR: Of course. The process has just started up again. The idea of the Turkish Islamic Union is an ideal that Turkey has never abandoned, will never abandon, and must never abandon.

Presenter:  So you believe that such a union can be established in the long term?

ADNAN OKTAR: Of course, of course. The historical conditions are appropriate, social conditions are right, economic conditions are right, appropriate in all respects.

Presenter: While you espouse these ideas on the one hand, you are at the same time someone who is engaged in a serious struggle against the Jews and Freemasons. Do these groups not put any obstacles in your way?

ADNAN OKTAR: This is a union acting in favour of the Jews. Because the Jews themselves will be enriched and have easier lives in such a system. They will be freed from pressure and terror, and the resulting structure will ease the situation of the whole region.

Presenter: A very important phenomenon has emerged recently. As you know, the concept of dialogue between the Islamic and Christian worlds has been raised.

Presenter: In fact we know that this concept of dialogue between Christians themselves and between faiths was first of all one between different Christian churches, and then turned into a platform for dialogue in Turkey under the joint chairmanship of our Prime Minister and the Prime Minister of Spain. Yet we see that the Pope does not believe that the blessed Muhammed (saws) was the last prophet. Is it possible to believe that there can be dialogue between faiths can happen with such an attitude?

 ADNAN OKTAR: It should not be described as a dialogue between the faiths. It should be understood in the sense of a human approach, a discussion of ideas between friends. It would be wrong to involve such an incongruous concept as dialogue. For example, I love Christians, I love Jews, if they are true believers and have faith in God and abide by the commands of their own religion. I feel compassion for them. We can enjoy human relations. I will go and dine in their houses and they will come to eat in mine. Moreover it is possible to marry with Christian and Jewish women. It is legitimate to marry them and this attitude is a requirement of our faith. But we do not accept all of their beliefs, of course. Only the true ones. We all believe in the oneness of God, and are agreed on the subject of paradise and hell. We are agreed on the return of the Prophet ‘Isa (as). But for example I am opposed to the idea of the Trinity. That is polytheism and I cannot accept it.

Presenter: But is dialogue possible under these circumstances?

ADNAN OKTAR: We can talk. You can sit down face to face and talk. If that is what is meant by dialogue, yes.

Presenter: What I understand from this concept of inter-faith dialogue is that you are in favour of talks.

ADNAN OKTAR: Of course there can be talk and conversation.

Presenter: You say you reject the Trinity, and the circumstances will show what the conditions are. There are men of religion among opinion shapers in Turkey, such as Necmettin Erbakan and Fethullah Gulen. There are various religious communities. Do you speak with their leaders? Do you support their actions? What is your attitude towards them?

 ADNAN OKTAR: I like Erbakan a lot. He is a very loveable, witty and highly intelligent person. He has a sincere love for the motherland and the nation. He is truly devout. I also like other religious leaders, and from time to time I go and pay my respects to them. I generally prefer unity to separatism.

Presenter:  What is your view of Fethullah Gülen’s movement? There is real action taking place at the moment. They are represented in Parliament. And media publishing groups and many large companies, and from time to time the state, try to combat them in the same way as they do with you. What is your opinion concerning Fethullah Gülen and his colleagues?

ADNAN OKTAR: I respect all religious communities, all religious groups. I like Mahmut Hodja and Esat Coşan’s group, and I talk with them. If there is anything untoward, anything that makes the state uneasy, this should be explained rather than it taking direct action against them. You can tell a friend that he has a flaw and that he will be quite perfect if he corrects that. If that person then puts himself in order there is no need for further direct action.

Presenter: The reason I asked this question is; I see from you recent statements that you have also become a shaper of opinion. Most shapers of opinion in Turkey end up going abroad; they go and live in America. If You face problems in Turkey, would you consider to settle in America?

ADNAN OKTAR: For one thing, a person cannot abandon his homeland. Because that means leaving behind your family, your brothers. What will become of them? Should we abandon the country to the communists, to atheists, to the PKK? Out of the question. You pluck up your courage and stay and fight on the intellectual plane.

Presenter: So you would never settle in America?

ADNAN OKTAR: Absolutely not. I was born here, and I will die here. InshaAllah

Presenter: That is a very important question for me. All our viewers are curious, too. And we are approaching the end of our programme. Could you tell us, in your own words, what your objective, your mission, is?

 ADNAN OKTAR: Our nation, the Turkish nation, the Turks in Turkey, the people of Anatolia in particular, are the most perfect in the world. I do not say that from a racist perspective. The Islamic moral values that have come out of Anatolia represent the finest role model in the world. They are full of love, hospitable, humane and rational. I believe these people deserve the very best. I believe they deserve to lead the Turkish Islamic world. I shall continue my struggle within that belief. Better conditions for them and the whole world is one of my main aims.

Presenter: Thank you for affording us this opportunity to talk.

Presenter: Have you any final words you wish to add?

ADNAN OKTAR: I am generally very much loved amongst those people who know me. Because I am a well intentioned, sincere person. It is the Qur’an that shapes my ideas. It is Islamic moral values, the belief of the People of the Sunna compatible with the Qur’an. My main criterion in setting out my ideas is honesty. But people who do not know me may harbour odd thoughts out of a sense of prejudice. But that happens to all thinkers. Political party leaders oppose them, opposition to them arises, and ugly things are written about them. You cannot find many really popular people in Turkey. Truly. They are either fanatically adored or fanatically hated. That needs to be put right, in my view. Even if they don’t much like someone, they should still respect them. A climate of love needs to be established. But in general terms I am very popular with those who know me. I take pleasure in love, affection and conversation. I am compassionate. I am humane. I also think that interviews of this kind have a very positive effect. InshaAllah.

Presenter: Dear viewers, our guest this evening was Adnan Oktar, with whom we analysed a number of subjects. Are there foreign powers behind Adnan Oktar? We have learned whether Adnan Oktar sees himself as a researcher or scientist, how he describes himself, and learned his views on the European Union, the United States, the Ecumenical Orthodox Greek Patriarchate, and whether a Muslim country should have nuclear weapons. We have tried to establish his perspective towards other faiths, and towards the PKK. We have sought to learn how he regards the differences between the various sects, and the significance of the Mahdi, the Prophet ‘Isa (as) and the Dajjal. We asked him about whether the Christian theory could cause hostility towards Jews in a Muslim country, we tried to learn all those on your behalf. I offer my thanks to him, in your presence, for having afforded us this opportunity, and wish you all a very good evening. Thank you, Sir.

 ADNAN OKTAR: My thanks to you. It has been an honour and a privilege. InshaAllah we can talk again another time.

Presenter: All right, Good bye, and goodnight, Sir.

01 Şubat 2008

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