Presenter: Welcome to you all from Konya Television. Today we have a very special programme and a very special guest for you. There is a theory that we have all learned or been taught ever since early childhood; the evolution theory. Our guest today is an author whose career, beginning with proving the collapse of the theory of evolution, has been followed with great enjoyment by all of us, from 7 to 70 and is still continuing today with documentary broadcasts. There is no need to prolong matters any further. We all know him by the name Harun Yahya. And he, Adnan Oktar, is here with us today on Konya Television. Welcome to our programme, sir. You do us a great honour.
ADNAN OKTAR: Thank you. Allah be pleased. Welcome to you as well.
Presenter: Thank you. Now, we are very well acquainted with Adnan Oktar from his books. But I would like to hear about Adnan Oktar in his own words. I would like to begin by asking you who Adnan Oktar is, from your point of view. Over to you, sir.
ADNAN OKTAR: I was born in Ankara in 1956. On February 2nd. I attended primary, middle and high school in Ankara. After winning a place at the Interior Design Department of the Fine Arts Academy in Istanbul, I moved there. After studying there for 2-3 years I transferred to the Istanbul University Literature Faculty, where I studied for a while longer. Then, as you know, came my books. And then CDs, other activities, and conferences, which brings us up to the present day.
Presenter: Your activities began during your university years I believe?
ADNAN OKTAR: Yes.
Presenter: We have a great many issues to discuss. I wanted to start with you personally, and will then ask about Turkey and the world in general. But there is one more personal question I want to ask. How does Adnan Oktar spend an average day? What do you do after getting up, in the afternoon, in the evening?
ADNAN OKTAR: Yes. In general, I have no fixed routine. My life is very active and lively. I may have unexpected guests. Unexpected events take place. Unexpected activities. But I usually get up early. I work out. I have cats and rabbits, and I spend a bit of time with them in the garden. There are trees in the garden, and I spend some time with gardening, flower gardening. I am very fond of nature. I love trees, plants and flowers, I mean I love everything that is beautiful. These things give great joy to human beings because they are all manifestations of Allah. For example, a flower that has just bloomed stirs my soul. Because it is a manifestation of Allah. That cute expression on a cat’s face move me tremendously. Because it is a manifestation of Allah. For instance, the innocence of a puppy, I love all beautiful things. I enjoy conversation. I meet up with friends. And I really enjoy writing my books. Because every book means I am addressing millions of people. And the fact they are distributed free of charge increases my excitement. This year alone, elhamdulillah, 40 million copies of my books have been downloaded for free. Forty million books. That is a huge figure. We have made it easy to download them, and our brothers are downloading them in vast quantities. May Allah be pleased with them all. MashaAllah.
Presenter: You write under the name Harun Yahya. There was also Cavit Yalçın. Those years were when I was at an Imam Hatip high school [largely religious academic institutions]. I used to buy and read some of your small white books in 1994, ’95 and ’96. We know the name Harun Yahya, but I would like to hear in your own words why you chose that name. What is its significance?
ADNAN OKTAR: Right. As you know, Harun is the prophet charged by Allah with assisting the Prophet Musa when he asked for help. And Yahya is an esteemed prophet with a deep love for the Prophet ‘Isa (as). Both were prophets and helpmates. As a humble servant of our Prophet (saws), I adopted the name in their memory.
Presenter: And you are using that name... Maybe we can go a little bit deeper now. Please correct me if I am wrong. You began your journey with the collapse of the theory of evolution. You began occupying yourself with that during your university years, and I read that during those years you published a booklet that you handed out for free. Why was it you targeted the theory of evolution as far back as then?
ADNAN OKTAR: The theory of evolution is a tumor, principally responsible for the sickness, the suffering affecting Muslims. It is a cancer. They are unable to see where this nightmare came from. One may have a headache, or nausea, shortness of breath, paralysis. But people imagine that these are natural physical disorders. But what underlies them is a cancer seed in a single brain. And that cancer is Darwinism. Without that cancer being cut away and treated it is impossible for Muslims to leave at ease. It is Darwinism that underlies all the sufferings, the headscarf issue etc., in the Islamic world, all the troubles in all areas. Well-being appears wherever Darwinism vanishes. If you notice, there has been enormous well-being in Turkey ever since Darwinism in the country was dealt with a fatal blow. A growth in faith, well-being, was reflected in all things. From politics to economics, it is reflected in everything. But had Darwinism strangled Turkey, there would have been terrible strife and corruption in the country. There would have been conflict between right and left. There would have been anarchy and suffering. It is the death of Darwinism that lies at the root of this well-being in Turkey.
Presenter: What is it that Darwinism actually did? What was the origin of its negative impact?
ADNAN OKTAR: Darwinism leads to disbelief. It is the ideology of disbelief, the religion of disbelief. When you ask outright why someone lacks faith, they will not say that they are like that for no reason. They will say they do not believe because they believe in Darwinism instead. This is very important. They will say they have intellectual reasons, justifications, for being without faith. That is why I do not believe, they will say, otherwise I would be a believer. This is something never been seen before. It is just about the first time in the history of the world that we are witnessing such a thing. In fact, it was around in the time of the Sumerians, but then it was not in an intellectual sense, it was all based on legends. It was based on mythological accounts. But now, in addition to being a myth it has also assumed an intellectual appearance, and that intellectual appearance is one of the first thing that draws people to it. And that represents the dangerous side of the disease. In killing off Darwinism we also demolished its intellectual aspect, had we said “this is such an illogical theory, as if it was possible, what had ever came into existence by chance”, this is something that has been said for 100 years, said for 150 years. And that had no effect at all. But we said “here you are, see the fossils” and displayed hundreds and thousands of fossils. But we have displayed hundreds, thousands of fossils, and set the fossils out for display in the public gaze. The odds of a single protein coming into being by chance are 1 in 10950. This means zero in practical terms, meaning that it is totally impossible. Even a child understands this. What is the significance of a number consisting of 950 zeroes? But even if we accept the formation of one protein in such a way, another one would be needed. Another protein would have to emerge in the face of exactly the same odds. Then the odds of these two proteins combining together would again be incredibly low. Then a third, and a fourth, thousands, tens of thousands, millions of other proteins would also have to join the chain. And when that happens, all we have is protein powder. There is still no life. That is what we try to make clear. In other words, no human beings, no scientists, no artists, no Newtons or Einsteins, emerge from this. The architects, scientists and mayors who built Istanbul do not emerge by chance from mud. It is this nonsense we are telling people about. It is this senseless logic we are seeking to eradicate. We are trying to explain that chance can do nothing.
Presenter: In any event every one of our viewers probably has at least one of your works at their homes. Either a CD or a book. You have demolished the nonsense of the theory of evolution using perhaps the same arguments as a weapon.
ADNAN OKTAR: Of course.
Presenter: I would now like to move on to another subject. You have produced hundreds of books. Hundreds of documentaries have been made on the basis of your books. And you produce these at the same time as your many other activities. What is your aim in these activities? What do you hope to achieve? What is the starting point of your activities?
ADNAN OKTAR: All Muslims have an obligation to command what is good and tell people to avoid what is evil. Surah Loqman sets this out. When that does not happen, both the individual not complying with the stipulation and the region that they are in, will find themselves in terrible trouble. The reward for this is hell, Allah forbid. If a believer wishes to earn Allah’s approval, therefore, if he wishes to win Allah’s love, he must struggle against the system of the Dajjal, atheism and disbelief. This cannot be done by sitting at home and shouting down with America, down with Israel, down with the Freemasons. This is done with a rational, scientific struggle against these perverted ideas and with genuine faith. Genuine faith has the greatest impact of all on people. In other words, it is very important for the person communicating the message to use genuine words and a genuine style of address. Falsity has a terrible negative effect on people. This is also a problem. For example I see people trying to explicate sometimes, but they are phony. I mean the way they talk doesn’t seem like they actually believe in what they are telling. Whereas a devout believer has an intrinsic, sincere confidence in himself. The style he employs is sincere, and the proofs he submits are genuine, proofs that leave no room for doubt or counter-argument. If you notice, I always use the very soundest evidence in my books.
Presenter: Yes.
ADNAN OKTAR: In other words, no room is left for any alternative view. There is no room for any alternative when I discuss Darwinism. The president of France was previously an atheist, a materialist and a leftist. But now he is a devout Catholic. He tells people of the evils of disbelief and the beauty of having faith in Allah. When did his ideas change? After reading my Atlas of Creation. I personally sent the Atlas to his office in France. They looked at the details, and the ministry examined it. The concluded it was really impressive. But when it came to high schools students, they concluded that it would be impossible to believe in Darwinism if they read the book.
Presenter: Yes.
ADNAN OKTAR: So they agreed not to allow the book in schools.
Presenter: Indeed. The visual aspect is right at the forefront in your works. Your books are top quality, I suppose that is the best way of describing them. You attach great importance to quality. In that regard, I would like to ask the following question about you personally. You life style is sometime the subject of discussion. Does Adnan Oktar enjoy a really grand life style? And there is another question about you personally I would like to ask before moving on to other matters. Does Adnan Oktar have a very luxurious life style?
ADNAN OKTAR: I am a great admirer of the Prophet Sulayman, of course. As you know, the Prophet Sulayman was someone who lived surrounded by beauty, who loved all that is beautiful. Horses were brought to him, and he would stroke them. He would look at those horses with awe. He loved animals. He smiled when ants communicated with one another and felt a great love for them. He was extremely gentle towards people. The place he lived in was quite magnificent. The floor he had made resembled water. The Queen of Sheba thought it was water. He employed such an original and such superb decorative technique, and this was a manifestation of the excellent mind bestowed upon him by Allah. All Muslims take prophets as role models, of course. Our Prophet (saws) was also very wealthy, not at all poor as he has been described. Verses reveal this. The verse states: “Did He not find you impoverished and enrich you?” So he was wealthy. Verses make that clear. Allah speaks of having given wealth to the Prophet Ibrahim in the verses. In other words, there can be no question of a Muslim retiring into a corner with a lump of bread and a cardigan and going to sleep. A Muslim deserves the best of all things. Allah tells us in the Qur’an that Muslims are given goods in this world, but in the Hereafter, they are the only ones that attain these goods. That means both in this world and in the Hereafter, a Muslim is strong, wealthy, healthy, happy and deserving of the very best of everything. But it is important to use these things on Allah’s path, for his brothers, for other Muslims rather than for his own earthly desires. The Muslim must give thanks to Allah. The Prophet Suleyman loved riches, but he wanted them for Allah’s approval. He sought them in order to see the manifestations of Allah, to enjoy that purity, to attain Paradise and to live in peace with other Muslims. It is perfectly normal for a Muslim to desire such things. It is an excellent thing, and there is nothing at all wrong with it.
Presenter: We hear stories about some painful events that have befallen you in recent years. I would like to ask about them in order to hear you describe them in your own words. Maybe we can enter into the subject with a brief statement from you? You went through an accusation of being a crime ring, the Ebru Simsek event,the cocain plot, these are the things you experienced. Let us have your explanations about these issues and i would like to leave it at that.
ADNAN OKTAR: A man with a cause inevitably finds shaytan (satan) trying to block his path. shaytan is not going to tell you to do what you wish and to destroy him. shaytan is the cleverest entity in the world. He possesses a far sharper intelligence than all the human beings in the world. He therefore comes up with finely detailed plans for the people under his control. Shaytan says, right, if you want to oppose me, I will show you what is what. Come on, let us see who is the stronger, he says. He issues a challenge. I am currently at war with shaytan. And he uses his supporters against me. He uses the people he has taken over and deceived. And in doing so, shaytan strikes at those areas to which the public are most sensitive. And what are those? Organised crime, blackmail, drugs, heroin, cocaine and all that sort of thing. They need to be the things that people find the most exasperating, irritating or unpleasant. But in every single time, every trap sat out, as stated in the verses, a great many verses, of the Qur’an, every trap created is confounded. Because the One creating that trap and also creating the trap as confounded is Allah. Every snare is created as already confounded. That is a law of Allah. For example, in the cocaine plot they made an incredible clumsiness. There never was such an incompetent conspiracy. Allah totally confused them. For example, they found the cocaine three minutes after they arrived, whereas they could have spent half an hour looking for it. They could have given the impression that they had really looked for it. Why should 20 people all squeeze into the living room? Spread out through the house! Isn’t that right? Why begin from that end when searching through the books? And why start searching from the books? Why put it in the 3rd book you search? Put it in the 20th book, or the 25th. Take your time! Isn’t that right? Search the top shelf first, then the middle shelf, then the one below. Make it look as if you had just stumbled across it. But no… time is of the essence, time is pressing, and since they were unwilling to waste any time they wanted to get out at once. They found it in the third book they look in. And as soon as they found it they wanted to leave. Wrong! Search the other rooms, why don’t you? What if everywhere was full of things? There can be anything anywhere. But no, they were straight out of the door. This time they ordered me plenty of food in the Security Department Headquarters. They ordered kebabs for me. And I thought what generous, kindly people they were. And such kind gestures cannot be turned down, so I ate and drank. They were very spicy, Adana-style kebabs, but there was nothing to be done. They were looking after me well, and I saw that as a sign of something auspicious. And of course, it was auspicious anyway. The fact was, however, that there was a huge amount of cocaine in the kebabs they brought me. Cocaine powder, powder they had mixed in. I had been under detention for 72 hours. Cocaine only stays in the human body for 24 hours at most, at the end of which it completely vanishes, and nothing is left. But at the end of 72 hours, a level of more than 5 µg /ml was found in my blood. A lethal dose.
PRESENTER: You mean they analysed your blood after 72 hours of detention?
ADNAN OKTAR: of course, of course. After 72 hours. It is an abnormally high dose. We didn’t understand at first. But the judge was suspicious, suspicious of the way they had found it so quickly. He saw how they had found it inside the first three minutes. He was amazed at that, and at how 20 people had conducted the search. He really looked askance at that, and shouted in a loud voice. The police all stood there with their heads bowed as the judge talked. The judge was really furious. He asked whether it could be administered in food, and told them to check with the Forensic Science Department. And he ordered an investigation into the whole affair. The report came back from Forensics. It can be administered in someone’s food, but no trace remains in the blood stream after 72 hours. The Forensic Science report said that the drug had been mixed in with my food while I was at Security Headquarters. I was then immediately released. This is one of the plots! See how Allah confounded them? It was the same in the Ebru Şimşek affair… They accused me of making a blackmail tape and blackmailing that poor young girl with it. It created a huge sensation all over Turkey. There was a huge upheaval over it. They thought it was very conceivable. And then, Allah confounded them again… They failed to consider the details in the film. The joists in the film run up and down – joists and columns. But in my home they are hidden, the ceiling is perfectly flat. It is asmolen ceiling. But they run up and down in the film. The windows are different, too. The windows in my home reach from floor to ceiling, but in the other place they are very small. Something like this.We then had the films compared and called the court in. All the members of the court turned up. We brought lawyers and expert witnesses and showed the films. On a large screen…The court watched, it was all perfectly clear. There were no armed men or long-range rifles. There was that woman, someone else alongside her, an ordinary home, 60-70 square metres in size, joists hanging down, nothing similar with my house, windows are tiny. The place is quite empty. There is no incident of the kind alleged. It can clearly be seen that there are two people there, and a classical scene is unfolding. I can’t bear to give it a name, but it is a classical scene. The source of the film is unclear. They realised that it had nothing to do with me whatsoever. As soon as the court saw this evidence they understood. And they concluded from the other witness statements, expert reports and other testimony that the whole thing was a lie and a slander, and I was acquitted. I was acquitted, but not a word of this appeared in the press. You have been saying I do such things for 10 years, but I have been acquitted, so why don’t you report that? But no. Why not? Because that is what psychological warfare demands. It is not accustomed to do so in psychological way. Only unfounded allegations are reported in psychological warfare, never the reply, since that never suits its purpose.
Presenter: So all this was intended to turn the public from you, the people who followed you with such interest...
ADNAN OKTAR: When this is done, they tell the people who buy my books that the man whose books they are reading takes cocaine and heroin, is a blackmailer, a gang leader… that he commits all the crimes you can think of, smuggling, everything, so why read his books? The logic is one of harrying tactics against an enemy you cannot defeat in the open. This is a requirement of my war with shaytan, who has been at war with me for many years. We are in the arena, and the public are watching shaytan and me. As I strangle him, some people shout in support of me and others against. But I have broken broken shaytan’s neck by eradicating Darwinism. The demolition of Darwinism is the greatest slap in shaytan’s face that has been dealt since the creation of the world, the most lethal blow. Because shaytan imagined that he would be declaring his own victory towards the final days of the world… But he may never have imagined that he would be so broken and humiliated. That is why he hates me. We are engaged in a struggle to the death.
Presenter: I read your works many years ago, as I said a while earlier… In those days we were aware of a Harun Yahya, but we did not know who that Harun Yahya was. We later learned that he was actually Adnan Oktar. His background emerged, but his was still not a name that appeared on many TV stations, apart from programmes like you mentioned. He was not given to issuing statements, for which there may be a reason, I do not know. But you have started issuing statements of late. What is the reason for that?
ADNAN OKTAR: The reason is destiny. I now feel that Allah wants me to do it. I believe that this is now needed, in terms of time and space and the general situation, and that it will be beneficial. I used to think that appearing before the press or on television would work against me. But now, thanks be to Allah, local television stations have sprung up, and these stations are not under the control of the kind of bosses we have been discussing or of the Freemasons. Neither are they the tools of atheist Zionists. They are local features. Heroic features. I consider others to be free of that, but I am referring to some particular stations here.These honest and upright channels, their declarations are very important, I mean their sincere explanations are very important. For example, I have complete confidence in Konya Television, my heart is at ease and I trust your honesty. But had I appeared on a Masonic channel I could never have held this kind of discussion. They would have twisted everything to an unbelievable extent under the influence of shaytan. They would have given it all a whole new appearance. Maybe that is why I kept a low profile. The more honest people I see the greater the confidence I feel. InshAllah…
Presenter: InshaAllah... I would now like to touch on your works themselves. Beginning with them, I shall have some questions about Turkey and the world as a whole. Looking at your works, for instance, one thinks or feels that some of the things we do in our day-to-day lives are compatible with the faith, but when we go back and look at the original references we see that they have nothing at all to do with our faith, Islam. Why, in your opinion, did we begin regarding these as part of the faith. Our young people especially do such things …
ADNAN OKTAR: If you can give a few examples I can respond specifically, that would be better...
Presenter: There is our behaviour in school, our dialogues with our school friends, I can’t say something very concrete. You wrote a book called The Religion of the Ignorant. I studied that very closely, I can’t give you a concrete example right now … I would rather not use an inaccurate expression here, but there are certain things we have begun regarding as a religion…
ADNAN OKTAR: I understand, you are talking in general terms. As the love and awe of Allah grows, people will naturally set this back on the correct course, in other words there will be no more need for the Religion of the Ignorant. All kinds of disease can appear wherever there is Darwinism, wherever there is atheism, when the human soul fights tooth and nail with atheism. In this case, people will long for the religion of the Ignorant, the people they see in films and soaps, the foreign artists. Then people can imitate various characters. But as love of the Qur’an and of the Prophet (saws) increase, the profound gentility, the deep beauty and nobility, the supra-modern modernity, the modernity that extends beyond all times, inherent within these will excite people, and draw them back onto the straight path, and their characters will be cleansed of all such abnormality, falseness and false longing. In order for these to be cleansed from people’s characters, we need to explain how perfect someone who abides by the Qur’an can be. Being Muslim is something being over supra-modern. Being Muslims means being the highest quality, the most select, the most powerful people in the world. Nobody can vanquish a true Muslim. Not even the whole world acting as one. Being a Muslim means being extraordinary. In the same way that nobody can vanquish the angels Jebrail, Azrael or Mikhail, so nobody can ever overcome a genuine Muslim, because he is under the control of Allah, a power on the side of Allah, and can therefore never be defeated, inshaAllah.
Presenter: InshaAllah... Now, I have another question concerning your works. Take The World of Plants, The Miracles in Animals, everything within them… The Miracles in the Ant… These are all really important and require an enormous expertise. Since I also work in the communications sector I can understand how they would need a lot of really professional work. Yet in a very short space of time, devoting very short periods of time to each one, you have produced more than 300 films or documentaries, 200 or 300, or even more, I am not sure of the exact number. So do you have a very large group of collaborators working with you. How do you produce all these works, or how do you and your team come up with such high quality?
ADNAN OKTAR: In working on my books I collaborate with a group of around 20 colleagues. These are highly cultured, educated, with an excellent knowledge of foreign languages. I tell them to bring me every new development related to a particular animal or plant, all the relevant studies and all the photographs you can find. I then select from among them, put them in the appropriate places and determine the connections between them. I interpret them and show them just as they are. I then send them off, after which they go to proof-readers and other experts who set them out properly. That is the reason behind the considerable speed involved. But if I were to try to collect all that information myself and to do all the necessary research I would only have produced 20 or so books to date.
Presenter: But you are in charge of everything. They come to you, you design them, and thus the concept comes into being, you say, and then your team works on the practicalities.
ADNAN OKTAR: Of course... Yes. For example, I take a personal interest in the book covers. I describe the covers, and three or five alternative variations arrive, all in line with my description. I choose from among them, saying that this or that one is the most appropriate. If I do not like the font I tell them to remove it, or I say that this or that colour should be lighter, and thus I change things around.
Presenter: As I have already said, your works are continuing in a number of very different areas. I would now like to open the subject of terrorism, which is very much on today’s agenda in Turkey. Terrorism has of course represented a running wound for us for many years now, and has flared up again, or has been incited again, over the last few months. First of all, what is your view of the terrorism afflicting Turkey, and why does it ebb and flow like this? What underlies beneath it?
ADNAN OKTAR: When I was at middle school I used to read about nature, and history, and philosophy. They would teach us how human beings supposedly came into existence, how a cell formed out of mud, and how this evolved, and turned into this, that or the other, and finally turned into a human being. I heard the same things in high school, and at university. Any young person receiving such a dialectical, intensively materialist education will have no difficulty in accepting Marxism. When not facing any difficulty in accepting Marxism, he won't have any difficulty in accepting terrorism. Because Marxism equates to terrorism. Marxism equals Darwinism. These are the same things. Such a groundwork by no means be prepared. The nightmare of Darwinism gives birth to these pests. But if the waters they breed in, the sewers they breed in, can be stopped or blocked, then this filth will no longer exist. As long as this sewer is kept, this trouble will be sustained. That is the heart of the matter. And that is where the solution lies.
Presenter: So the solution lies back where we started originally...
ADNAN OKTAR: Of course, telling people about the signs leading to faith. The eradication of Darwinism. There is no other solution. Because the people, the young people, in the east of Turkey are ill-informed. It is an easy matter to mislead the ignorant. People at a high school in the east, for instance… The PKK people gather them in their homes. Salaam alaikum. How are we created my friends, let me tell you one says. They also carry the textbooks. Maybe a textbook on natural history. Look, they say, we actually share the same ideas. It says here how we developed out of a single cell, how we developed in exactly the same way that Darwin set out. We are not saying anything unusual, just the ideas we all share. Therefore, they say, the dialectical laws we set out are exactly the same as these natural laws, they say. So Marxism and materialism must be true, they say. And in their own way they are right; if one accepts Darwinism one must also believe in materialism. If one believes in materialism, one must also espouse Marxism. That follows the acceptance of terrorism. These are not independent components. And eventually their propaganda is successful. It is impossible to obtain results, in terms of justice, by using legal measures and brute force against a society that has been won over by propaganda, and such a thing has never been seen. One can never get anywhere. Results can only be obtained by intellectual campaigns. The intellectual struggle in question consists of the eradication of Darwinism, materialism and atheism. In other words, if materialism and Darwinism are eradicated in the east, who are they going to preach Marxism to? Who will they preach terrorism to? Nobody will believe them. If nobody believes them, they will be unable to muster any supporters. That is why we are telling them to give us a free hand, to give BAV a free hand. And pave the way for me..If they let us engage in our activities in the east of Turkey freely we can put an end to this terrible nightmare, by Allah’s leave.
Presenter: So what I therefore conclude is that we can arrive at a solution by eliminating Darwinism and Marxism from the region and telling people about the truths of Islam, the truths of the Qur’an.
ADNAN OKTAR: Of course. That is because Qur’an teaches us brotherhood, peace, love and dialogue.
Presenter: Now that we have opened the subject of terror, there is also the drama being played out in Iraq. The blood of hundreds of thousands of Muslims has been shed there, and is still continuing to flow today. The United States of America went into the country in the name of democracy. Is the US objective there really oil, or mineral wealth, or is it in actual fact an effort to establish world rule? It says it will do this in 22 countries. What underlies this? What is your opinion?
ADNAN OKTAR: It is Allah Who involved America there. This line of troubles will never come to an end so long as Muslims fail to come together in union and unity, failed to choose a leader for themselves, fail to establish bonds of brotherhood amongst themselves and fail to abide by the Qur'an. America will go, and be replaced by Russia. Then Russia will give way to China. China will go, and they will all savage one another...This is not the answer. People think that the situation will resolve itself if America withdraws. But America was not there before, and Iran and Iraq were at one another’s throats. Saddam killed his own people with poison gas. So chaos and strife continued in the region. The people will wonder why Allah has inflicted such suffering on them. They need to ask what lies at the root of all this pain. But it is meaningless to analyse the type of suffering. Where does it come from? All of it comes from Allah. They need to look to the solution. The answer is in full compliance with the Qur’an. It is union, unity and brotherhood. But they are still divided along Sunni/Shia lines. There is no such division really, but they create one. But we are all brothers. All Muslims are brothers.
Presenter: Some of your works are concerned with Zionism. You have works about Freemasonry and Judaism, and others about Israeli rule. After having written all these books, what do you say in the face of all the bloodshed and oppression going on? What lies behind all this fighting? You have just referred to Muslims, but what can you tell us about those Zionist forces or the fighting going on today?
ADNAN OKTAR: Right from the outset shaytan told Allah that he would lead astray all but His most devout and genuine servants. And Allah confirms that this is the truth. This is all to do with shaytan intensifying his activities. In other words, shaytan stands directly behind atheistic Zionism and Freemasonry. And these learn directly from shaytan. Shaytan says in one verse that he has bound himself to them just like a shell. They have now become his disciples. They enter into trances and establish communication with shaytan. And they do whatever he tells them to do. In other words, it is shaytan’s commands that lie behind all this bloodshed, these declarations of war and all this strife and deception. Otherwise a Freemason is just an ordinary husband and father. He could never otherwise take such cruel decisions. It is shaytan’s inspiration that lies behind those decisions. And shaytan’s direction. At the same time these people have a terrible fear of shaytan. They imagine that if they disobey him he will inflict grave suffering on them. shaytan actually haunts them, draws them into depression, nearly drives into madness. And they come to a state that they do whatever shaytan tells them to do. That is because they are not devoted to Allah. When they are not devoted to Allah, they became soldiers of shaytan and can never wriggle through. The solution to this is again for Muslims to bind themselves to one another with love and joy, for the whole Islamic world to join together in union and brotherhood under the leadership of a single centre, within love, peace and brotherhood and for this discipline to be established.
Presenter: I shall be asking about Muslim countries in a moment, but regarding the issue at hand I would like to ask this; as far as I have been following you’re your works; what do Zionists think of other people? As Muslims, we regard all human beings as servants created by Allah and treat them alike. Are Zionists, particularly Zionists any different? And is there a difference between Zionists and Jews?
ADNAN OKTAR: Atheist Zionists have imprisoned the Jewish people. Devout Jews in Israel are in a terrible situation. The atheist Zionists really oppress them. True, devout Jews are excellent people. They are good natured. They fear Allah. They believe in and pray to one Allah. They strongly believe in the Hereafter and carefully observe what is lawful and avoid what is not. Atheist Zionists, on the other hand, are exceedingly cruel and bloodthirsty. Theirs is a fanatical system that constantly desires blood and offers that blood up to shaytan. Blood is shaytan’s greatest source of nourishment. He wants human blood. As you know, they have performed strange rites, sacrificed people, young girls and children, ever since the most ancient times. Shaytan constantly thirsts for blood. And they feel themselves obliged to lay on a constant supply of blood for him. Shaytan terrifies them. He threatens them that he will do this and that to them. He says he wants blood, and they constantly find it for him. This is an insane system. In return, they are permitted to benefit from the benefits of this world. A bond of economic advantage ties them together. They look after and watch out for one another. But they are still not fully content or at ease. All atheist Zionists are in a constant state of tension. They suffer. They know no joy or peace. Whenever you run into such people you will notice that they have a devilish expression. Their faces are devilish, and they are horribly troubled. They are tense, neurotic and aggressive, in other words, loveless.
Presenter: Yes.
ADNAN OKTAR: But Allah tells us in the Qur’an that this is how things will be until people cling to Him and the Book. Allah says that He will inflict suffering if you stray from His path. But people do not believe it. They really believe that trouble just come from the sky, like meteorites. But this is not the case. Allah states that He will make some people bother others. And Allah sends these troubles in various guises. They may take the form of poverty, or strife. Or rebellion or conflict. He may cause civil wars, or cause foreign countries to attack. It is Allah Who does all these things. But none of this would happen if people clung tightly to Allah, clung tightly to the Qur’an, and loved Allah. They would live as if they were living in Paradise. That is the age we are heading towards. The Golden Age.
Presenter: Yes.
ADNAN OKTAR: The times for the return of Jesus is approaching and the coming of the blessed Mahdi is drawing nigh. The beauty and goodness of that age have already begun revealing themselves. The elimination of Darwinism means breaking the horns of the Dajjal. And that will slowly gain momentum. That will usher in an age of peace, security and brotherhood. The hadith say as much. This will be a period of 60 or 70 years. It will be very brief, in other words, inshaAllah.
Presenter: I would now like to ask about the End Times and the coming of the Mahdi.
ADNAN OKTAR: Yes. InshaAllah.
Presenter: Actually, I would like to close this subject and open another. We are all following what is going on in Palestine. One of your books was about that, one called Palestine. What does Palestine tell us about the Islamic world and the world in general?
ADNAN OKTAR: Palestine is like a brief précis of the troubles afflicting the Islamic world. But note that prior to Palestine these difficulties were socialist in origin. Socialists were in power. Socialists, communists in other words, were in power in Syria and Iraq. Communism means atheism, materialism and Darwinism.
Presenter: Yes.
ADNAN OKTAR: And that was how it was in Palestine. But in the wake of those troubles they became highly religious. They drew back towards Allah.
Presenter: Yes.
ADNAN OKTAR: Look, this is highly significant. Iraq has become very devout. So has Syria. They have begun rising up. That means that Allah has purified them. How has He purified them? With troubles. And thus they have begun drawing back to Allah. Otherwise they just sat by the river banks puffing their pipes, dancing to flutes and drums. But now they are never out of the mosques. This is a most excellent development. Were they to love Allah even more and cling tightly to the Qur’an, they would suffer no more Israeli oppression, nor would anyone else rule over them, and this poverty and insecurity would vanish. That is the whole question. Let them do that and not worry about anything else. They must love and fear Allah more, and must desire unity and union. They must pray to the Lord to send them a ruler. The whole Islamic world must become a single family. We may continue as separate nation states, but they must also pray that we should all be brothers. That will be the end to the whole problem, inshaAllah.
Presenter: Yes. We have come right to what I wanted to ask about. We have talked about the examples of Iraq and Palestine, but dramas of this kind are taking place all over Muslim lands. There is still no unity in the lands of Islam. What is Turkey’s responsibility in that respect?
ADNAN OKTAR: Turkey’s duty is to lead the Turkish-Islamic world. The Turkish nation has a huge responsibility. Leadership of the Turkish-Islamic world is of the greatest duties in history. This is one of the crucial tasks falling to the Turkish nation. We, the Turkish nation, have a duty not just to save Turkey, but to save the entire Turkish-Islamic world. The Turkish nation is truly unlike any other. This is not racism, but Turks are loyal and very good natured. They are humane. And very compassionate. And unbelievably self-sacrificing. Go to any village. Go as their guest. They give guests the very best places, the finest food, the most comfortable beds, and offer them the best glasses to drink from. What does this mean? It means that our people are not egotistical or selfish, but are a loving loyal and joyous nation. They long to give their lives up for Allah. That is why, if you notice, nobody ever seriously considers attacking Turkey. From that point of view, Turks are steely hard. They are heroic, and filled with a boyish enthusiasm.
Presenter: Some proverbs refer to Turkey being the backbone of the world...
ADNAN OKTAR: They are a really heroic nation. That is why they must undertake this duty straightaway. The Turkish-Islamic world longs for it to assume the leadership. I have spoken all the Turkic states. Just about every one wants Turkey to serve as leader. I speak and learn from all the leading figures from the Turkish-Islamic world. They all want to see Turkey take over as leader. There is no sense in prolonging matters. The Turkish nation must finally lead the Turkish-Islamic world. This is a crucial responsibility. The responsibility for all of them lies with us.
Presenter: Yes.
ADNAN OKTAR: The liberation of Palestine is down to us. And the salvation of Israel. Israel will be able to relax with us. Armenia, Turkestan, Tajikistan, Iran and Pakistan will all attain salvation with us at the helm. Morocco, Tunisia and Algeria will jump for joy if Turkey becomes leader. That is why we must delay no longer. Turkey must actively want the job. Nobody will object. Nobody will stand up and say they refuse to accept if Turkey asks for the job. It is something everyone wants.
Presenter: In that case the whole Islamic world will be liberated.
ADNAN OKTAR: Of course.
Presenter: One last word; if Turkey does this, then this union will also come about.
ADNAN OKTAR: Of course, inshaAllah.
Presenter: We are coming to the end of our programme. You referred in brief to the coming of the Mahdi, the End Times and the Golden Age all taking place. We have spent a long time talking about the negative aspects, but you also said that the Golden Age would eventually come.
ADNAN OKTAR: Yes.
Presenter: Are we living in the End Times now? May I ask your opinions regarding the Golden Age and the appearance of the Mahdi?
ADNAN OKTAR: Before his death, our Prophet (saws) gave his community a detailed description of what would befall them in the future, his intention being for them to behave more rationally, with greater ease and optimism, to the events that took place, and for them to organise their struggle accordingly. The coming of the Prophet ‘Isa (as) and the blessed Mahdi in the End Times is an absolute certainty. It is stipulated in the Qur’an. It is openly stated in the Qur’an. It is enshrined in a number of verses. The coming of the Mahdi is also described in absolutely trustworthy hadith, and is in itself totally reliable. Even in the absence of any such hadith it would still be the Law of Allah, because I am sceptical of the depth of Islamic belief of anyone who says that there will be no unity in the Islamic world until Doomsday. If someone says there will be an Islamic union, then that union must absolutely have someone at its head. The name of the individual who will head that union is the Mahdi. It is the Prophet ‘Isa (as) who will bind and convert the Christian world to Islam and join the two together. ‘Isa is the Messiah. When these two holy personages join forces a single religion will be established in the world. Islam will rule. But it appears from the hadith that this period will last for 60-70 years. After that, there will be further degeneration. All the portents regarding the coming of the Mahdi have taken place, and this is in itself a miracle. In other words, just about all the portents of the appearance of the Mahdi have become a reality between 1980 and the present, 2008. These are described in considerable detail on my web site. People can see these, the war in Afghanistan, the Iran-Iraq War, solar and lunar eclipses at 15-day intervals during the month of Ramadan, the appearance of a sign in the sky, rising numbers of earthquakes and hundreds of others, by visiting my web sites. Since these have all taken place, our Prophet (saws) was therefore telling the truth, that the Prophet (saws), also known as He Whose Word Is True, always told the truth. It means that the hadith are true. Our Prophet (saws) in any case always spoke the truth. But we have now witnessed that the hadith are true. So as for those who maintain that the hadith are fictitious… So where is it that they claimed the hadiths were adapted? Why is it all the hadith have come true? That means the coming of the Mahdi is a fact. Since so many portents are true, so must the coming of the Mahdi be. We will see the Mahdi. Said Nursi says he will be recognised by the light of faith. He says that this personage can only be recognised by the light of faith in the End Times. He says that the Prophet ‘Isa’s (as) disciples and close followers will recognise him through the radiance of faith. Said Nursi says that when he comes, there is no need for everyone to be totally certain of his identity. At first, very few people will recognise him, but after his appearance the whole world will know him, and he will travel the whole world. It is said so in the accounts that there is nowhere he will not visit and “there will be no-one he will not convert to the faith” says Allah in the Qur’anic verses, for the blessed Jesus (saas), this is only said for this prophet, Allah says that before he dies not one member of the peoples of the Book will remain unconverted. They will all come to believe.
Presenter: The whole world will believe.
ADNAN OKTAR: Of course the whole world will believe. The verse is unequivocal. This is clear. But if the matter of the Mahdi hushed up, if the truths of the Qur’an are hushed up, if the coming of ‘Isa is hushed up, then these troubles will boil over and rain down from the earth and sky. It is essential that we adhere closely to the Qur’an and the Sunnah of our Prophet (saws) if these woes are to come to an end. There is no other way.
Presenter: Thank you very much, Sir.
ADNAN OKTAR: And my thanks to you.
Presenter: If you have any final reflections for our Konya Television audience… If you wish to say anything I have not already asked about, please go ahead. We have come to the end of the programme.
ADNAN OKTAR: I have excellent news for my heroic brothers and sisters of Konya. The awakening of the Islamic world is gathering speed, and the most excellent results are close at hand. We will soon witness the most exciting, most delightful and most wondrous days, inshaAllah. They will say that “this was what our preached had told us, and so it has turned out.” Our teacher told us so, and so it has turned out. I am filled with the excitement of this. My deepest respects to you all.
Presenter: Thank you for not turning our invitation down.
ADNAN OKTAR: Thank you. It has been an honour.
Presenter: Thank you, so much. Yes, viewers, today we have been in the company of a very special guest with a very special agenda. We all know him by the name of Harun Yahya. I know that we all have at least one of his books in our homes. He is Adnan Hodja, or Adnan Oktar, and he continues to produce books at the same prodigious pace. That is all from us today. Our best wishes to you all.
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